Name: How I Got Promoted: Turning HR Data Into Business Impact
Uploaded: 2025-10-14T19:46:04.867Z
Duration: 1 h 4 min 44 s
Description: How I Got Promoted: Turning HR Data Into Business Impact

Transcript for "How I Got Promoted: Turning HR Data Into Business Impact": Hi, everyone. I'm Vanessa Kakesh, and I'm the content manager for HR at Rippling. And today, I am super excited to be here with our guest speakers. Leigh Holder, vice president of human resources at Clicklease. Hi. And I'm Adri Glover. I'm VP of people and culture at Bonusly. Amazing. So we are super excited to have you both on the panel, and, I can't wait to dive right in. So I guess let's start from the very beginning. I know that both of you have a very unique journey. So who were you before you got into HR? Would you like to start? Sure. Sure. I always joke around a little bit that this is this kind of a career incarnation for me. So my background was in social work, and I worked in housing and homelessness and mental health for fifteen years and hit a point where I just wanted to test myself and jump from the nonprofit world into the for profit world and have the opportunity to build out an HR department and kind of found a passion for being a systems nerd and also being a mission driven person, was very connected to, that aspect of organizational psychology and culture and and creating really successful systems for great cultures. So, yeah, transitioned and kind of recreated myself a little bit. I love this question because I find that many of us in the HR field, didn't formally know or study HR when we were 18. Like, didn't say one day, like, I wanna go to school to become a great HR professional and know that I wanna study labor unions, compliance laws, and we kind of find our way into this field. Right? I'm also a career changer. My background was actually in history of art and foreign languages, spent a lot of time living in Germany and The UK, and I was training to become an art specialist. I wanted to work in museums. I kind of wanted to be like the Indiana Jones of art. I wanted to become an art expert. And my program allowed me to, like, work behind the scenes at an auction house. So I had opportunity to, like, wear my white gloves and touch Andy Warhol paintings, measure them, catalog them, work through art insurance and sales. It's a really exciting time. I worked on a lot of blue chip art. I saw a lot of things before they disappeared into art collections and ultimately, you know, decided to make a career change at some point in my life. I found that being in the art world, it's like what you study in school and then when you get hands on experience working in a field can sometimes be really different. Mhmm. And I found that for me, it was three things. It was, one, you know, I was in a field that despite being passionate, I didn't feel I had opportunity to grow. There were a lot of barriers being a woman in the field, and a lot of jobs that were already, like, earmarked, you know, for others versus feeling like my values were if you work hard, you can get anywhere. And second bit was, it was a time in my life where my dad got sick, so the pay was really low. I had to do a lot of pro bono work, and I had to look out for my family. But the third was I had a manager that I didn't feel made me feel appreciated. You know? It was, and I'm all for constructive criticism, but it was very hard to go into a job and feeling passionate and, like, you never got one thank you or opportunity to say great job. And, you know, I I knew that I wanted to be in a place where I could grow, that my values were aligned, and that I was in a place where I could do something to help people. So I kind of found my way into HR through the back door. Long story short, it's been an amazing journey since. I don't know if we wanna riff on this at all or not, but it was it was it was interesting talking earlier about, like, being in office management roles or, like, how a natural evolution happens with maybe individuals who show some signs of, proactiveness of our organization. Right? And it does just it kinda just happens. Like, individuals, the first job where I built out an HR department, there wasn't an HR department, and there was an office manager. And I just went to the company president and the general manager, who was my boss, and said, hey. The office manager is leaving. Do you guys wanna put some systems together? Because this show is a mess. Right? And You would not you proposed the job, basically, for Yeah. And Wow. Then built out the department. Like, hey. Have you ever the entire room. Have you ever thought of, like, building out HR? And it's funny, though. Like, it was a catchall. It was the office manager was required to do everything. Mhmm. Right? And there weren't systems. There weren't standardization. There was there was no HRIS. Print. It's nothing bad. So it's it's kinda funny how the evolution just kind of occurs. But also, if somebody takes initiative, there's a lot of opportunity as well. Totally agree. I think it's about, like, seeing the potential. Right? Like, not being afraid to be shoehorned into something. Like, for me, I found that I wasn't happy in my career, and I felt like I was turning a cruise ship around in my life, honestly. Like, I had gone for a master's masters with honors and, like, came back, had traveled all around Europe. And I remember looking at, you know, different job descriptions and thinking, what can I do that's a transferable skill set? And I had done some executive assistant work. I had done some OM work, office management. And I was like, yeah. Let me try that. Found a job description for, being an o m and an e a to reporting to an HR team. I was like, what do HR people do? What does this mean? It's a tech startup. What's a startup? Well, I don't know anything about tech. But I was really intrigued. Like, they talked about work hard, play hard culture and feeling connected. And, like, you know, at those days, it was like, oh, we have a ping pong table. And I was like, this is cool. This seems interesting. So I went and I really liked the HR person that I met. And they asked me in the interview, will you have a master's degree? And, like, you speak three languages. Like, why it's such a great career in art. Like, why are you interested in, like, sitting at a front desk? You know, you have to buzz people in. You have to call them the toilets break, etcetera, etcetera. And I was like, you know what? There's twenty four hours in a day. And I realized that, like, the bulk of my life is gonna be in my career, and I wanna do something that feels meaningful. I wanna feel happy. This is a starting point for me. But, like, I need my eight hours of sleep too. So if I'm gonna spend, like, the bulk of my time doing something, I have to feel like I'm working with good people. I have to feel like I'm able to make a difference, and I wanna just genuinely feel happy. And, like, that was genuine. Like, I look back and I think about saying that, and it still stands true today. Like, doing something that you love and being around good people that build you up, hands down, the best decision you could make when you choose a career. That's really inspiring. I love how, like, both of you kind of molded that path for yourselves. Like, you took the action to to make a change. And, like, that was, like, almost an an inflection point, but it also steered you into HR. And, like, you mentioned it's so important to do something you love, and I feel like both of you have been able to to find that. So I'm curious, like, was there a moment where you realized this is this is what I was born to do? Or that you just felt that HR or people work was something innate in you to do? Was that not how you feel? I'm just curious. No. I'm I, I'm not convinced. Like, I never thought I would end up in HR. I never had this vision. Do I feel like it's the right fit? Yes. And I also am not pigeonholing myself just into people operations. Like, however, now that I'm in it, the exciting thing is that this is, I think, like, not taking on kind of the old school definition of HR, of the transactional, like talk about that. I really try to just remove all of kind of the old school definitions and just think broadly. The fun thing about people operations is you touch every aspect of the business. And I think it's it's when we limit ourselves, when we limit our own creativity or entrepreneurship. Right? Like, being that bringing the entrepreneurial mindset inside of the company and fostering that for our team or the culture inside of the company, then it's limitless. And that's where I think the inflection point was for me getting into HR. It was happenchance. Like, I wanted to optimize. I wanted to organize, and I just wanted to be a part of building something. And this just happened to be the way to do that, but you get to do it across the entire across the entire organization. Uh-huh. And I think that sometimes, as HR professionals, I think sometimes individuals restrict themselves. And that's why then maybe they don't end up around the executive table or around the the strategic conversations Mhmm. Because they're playing by the old rule book. I Or they only see that one path. And, like, earlier on, we were talking about, like, when you go to uni and you're studying. You know? Like, I studied history of art. And it was very clear a messaging I got time and time again is that you you could get your PhD, and you could teach or you could work in a museum or a gallery. And it was later on in life that I realized, like, oh my gosh. Do you know how much there is to art? You can be in art sales. You could be in art insurance. You could, like, become a master of art forgeries. You know? You could work on restoring old paintings. If I was better at chemistry in the day, oh my gosh. You know? My lowest grades in college were, like, chemistry and math. So, like, definitely more creative type. But, like, it's incredible when you think about the potential. There's art marketing. There's art writing, blogs, everything. So I'm with you on, like, not just seeing one path, but being open to, like, where a path can lead you. And, like, for me, I love the aspect of working in HR because you get to touch all aspects of the organization. Like, my first experience working with an HR team. If you told me, like, twelve years ago, Adri, you're gonna be a VP of people. I would be like, what do these HR people do? Stuffy paper pushers. They, like, they hire and fire. Like, there's still that stigma around what HR does, but the inflection point for me was, like, once I joined this tech start up, Exalade, it was like I was part of a team that cared about me. I had managers that cared about my growth. I worked hard. I worked really hard. I had to do all the o m work, executive assistant work. Again, I called when, like, toilets broke. I onboarded people. I really asked. I was hungry to learn and grow. And when I did my first performance review, my manager asked, like, I know you kind of started here. Like, what do you see yourself doing? And I was like, I wanna be an HR director like you. I was so inspired by having managers that cared about me and gave me a chance to grow even if it meant, like, really rolling up my sleeves and working late. But going to work every day feeling happy, even when I had a little bit of a sniffles, I was like, I don't wanna miss a day at work. I love the people I work with. I felt so happy for the first time in my career, and I appreciated what HR people could do, not just terms of culture, but in terms of people making people feel recognized, making them feel seen, making a difference in people's lives. Like, there's so much you do in HR that's behind the scenes where you might help someone through a leave of absence or, like, welcoming their first babies. You know? There's a lot that you see through the employee life cycle, and I experienced it firsthand. And it was just like, wow. I never really thought about these HR paper pusher people, but, like, they are doing some great stuff, and I want in. I went back to school. I did night school. I wrapped up work at, like, 06:30. I studied until 9PM, and I even went to Saturday classes to, like, get recertified. So I almost had to reprove myself even with the master's degree to, like, get recertified, do my PHR. I was so broke at that time. I had, like, a Citibank membership, and I was like, I'm gonna get around. I'm gonna make this happen. You know? Wow. It's amazing. You had that, like, determination. That's how much you believed in it. Yeah. Wow. That's that's awesome. That's awesome. That yeah. I I love that, and it's really inspiring. I think I'm really like, okay. One thing I want to ask though is you both mentioned, like, it's like that that stereotype of, like, the old rubric or the old rule book of, you know, HR just being this, like, pencil pusher kind of function. And I think sometimes that stigma still exists today. So can we break down a little bit about how like, what that even is? Like, why it's not the truth? And and then I wanna segue into, like, what is the potential of HR? Because from what I can tell, it feels really limitless, and I feel like you guys both have this secret vantage point of the entire business. You know? So but, yeah, I wanna talk about the old rule book and why it's not true. One thing to just kick off with a little bit of a joke is, like, I think a misconception about HR is, like, HR is scary. And, like, HR only works for companies. They don't care about people even though human is in human resources. Right? And, it's really funny, but, like, it's actually very sad. Like, I walk into rooms sometimes and people like, HR is here. Like, watch what you say. And I feel like when, like, the townspeople come with the pitchfork and they're like, oh, girl. Run away. And it's like, it really shouldn't be that way, guys. You know? Like, I mean, I always say, like, we're people too. And we walk through those doors, like, virtually or in person. So, like, imagine, like, just from an inclusion standpoint, like, HR, like, we also wanna feel connected. We wanna have friends at work. And, also, like I said, a lot of us didn't study HR formally. We found our way into this field. It's not through the back door. Like, for me, it was, like, through a kitchen window. You know? So, like and we found it because we really care. So, like, when you hear that misconception of, like, don't trust your HR people, that hurts. Like, it breaks my heart a little bit because, like, HR people are some of the smartest, most caring, innovative, creative people from all backgrounds, whether it's social work, art. We find our way into this field, and we do it because, like, we really care about making an impact. So I think that first stereotype, like, we need to do some work to, like, build our brand and help build trust. It's part of the reason why I love working in small companies. I get to work across all levels like Leif was saying. You know? Whether I'm, like, onboarding or interviewing or working with the CEO. I don't believe in just sitting with the executive team. I think that, like, for us to make a difference, people need to see us as us first, like, as Adri, as Slaif. But I think the second misconception is, like, a lot of executives find that HR people are not strategic, you know, complainy, don't get the numbers, don't really understand, and we're like a support function. Right? And I think that there's so much potential to, like, tell our story. Like, we don't have the same types of, quote, unquote, like, metrics where, like, you see clear cut finance or, like, your retention numbers in CS. But, like, we have such powerful insight into, like, what everyone is saying across the company. And being able to translate that story when you get to, like, see your executives, like, how did they like their data presented or what resonates with them to drive business impact, the misconception that HR people, like, are not strategic or not data focused is is a myth. But we still have to build that brand and credibility in each company and get to know how we work with our leaders to be able to make that true impact and have that voice and seat at the table. Absolutely. I think this old the old playbook or the old stereotype about HR, I mean, it comes from something. Right? It comes from somewhere, and I think there's been this entire evolution, the rebranding of HR to people operations. And I love I love the switch. Language is important. Right? I mean, it's so impactful. And people operations is is way more, I think, and associated with more than what people correlate human resources with, especially when they think of the old kind of it's compliance, and it's there to protect the company. That gets projected onto us a lot, that that reaction like, oh, oh, there you go. HR watching the room. Better not tell those inappropriate jokes anymore. Actually your shirt. You know? Yeah. Actually yeah. Sometimes we're human. I mean, I'm wearing this shirt for a reason because you know what? It's fun it's fun to be in the earth. Back to. No. There's not a back on this one. The HR team in Costa Rica did make some other ones. But it's like it's just being human. Like, we are humans as well, and I think it's incumbent on us, though, all HR partners to rebrand, like, to to create not only the culture, but also the internal consultancy that we can be and that we are and demonstrate that. Like, we have to prove it. You have to be part of the change you want to see. Right? And that's that's the whole part of rewriting that old school playbook is, like, well, we're not we're not the party planners. We're not just the office manager. Sure. We can help because isn't that a great team? Everybody should pitch in and be willing to okay. The toilet's broken. Somebody needs the help. But that's just a good company and good culture. Like, everybody should be willing to get their hands dirty. And to be part of facilitating that and, right, and Not once more. There's soft limiting. Yeah. There's so much more. So rewrite the playbook. Like, there's a reason that HR was pigeonholed because they were I think they like, this the old school practice was operating within a box. Like, it was it was very limited too, but that's transitioned so much. I know we've seen so many things even recently, like, where HR and tech is being merged. If anybody saw that Moderna article that was in the New York Times, people operations. Right? Like, people operations is owning so much more, and we kind of are the the gatekeepers across the company of enabling democratizing data, information, like FAQs, SOPs, everything, tools that set up employees for success. That's not compliance. Of course, compliance is part of it. There is a massive road map across the company that we have our fingerprints all over All over. All over. And it's a really big vision. And, right, if people aren't capturing that vision Mhmm. If people don't understand the opportunities and if people can't tell the stories to their executive team or if they can't coach internally, like, lead the leaders. There's so many opportunities, so many fun things we get to do, which is why coming back to inflection points, like, wow. What isn't on the table for us? If you have a passion, you really can get your hands into everything. Everything. And, like, HR, especially with tech these days, it's incredible, like, the opportunity that we're able to have because HR is a function still, like, a very young profession. Like, I don't remember, I wanna say, like, nineteen twenties, nineteen thirties. You know? Like, this is something that started because people needed to keep records and, like, you know, payroll and things like that. So we've moved away from just being a function that, like, strictly does payroll and basic benefits and, like, you know, compliance where we have become true partners. And like you said, we touch every aspect of the org. We have fingerprints over so many things. Like, I I honestly feel bored if I just stay in the HR world. I almost feel like since being promoted to VP, I still do all the HR stuff, but I'm really excited to lead at kind of that next level. Like, I represent HR, but I get to work, like, across all areas. And, like, being in an HR tech start up, there's even opportunity to talk about, like, influencing product. You know? Understanding, like, what are customers saying? Like, how can you get involved in, like, brand advocacy? It's amazing. Like, true partnerships, it goes above and beyond. And like Blaise said, sky's the limit. Like, if we only see ourselves in these windows and functions, we'll never be able to get to the creative aspect of, like, how far we could break through that ceiling. Right? If you were presenting this rebrand of HR and, say, you have the whole executive team here for you, like, what would you tell them? Like, what what are the things you would say? Like, this is something, like, we can do, we should be doing, but it's not happening. Or or even to, like, other HR people who maybe feel trapped in those boxes. Like, they could hear what you believe could be, like, this rebrand of the entire function, especially as we get into a world where, like, tech is just, you know, rapidly increasing, so the potential really feels limitless. But I'm curious what you would say. It's such a good question. There's a lot packed in there. I think advice to HR excuse me. I think advice to HR professionals is one, like, we are so versatile. Like, we come from all kinds of backgrounds. Many of us, very few of us, like, studied HR formally by the book and, again, found passion in, like, joining this field. We have to bring out all of our creative backgrounds, you know, into this and, like, think about ways to think outside the box. You know? I don't want anyone to feel like they're trapped. They're alone in this. It can be lonely as an HR team as one. And, like, sometimes, like, you're figuring things out and, you know, you feel like, gosh, there's someone smarter than me or, like, I I don't know. Like, I didn't study this formally and, like, you get frustrated. But then you realize you have conversations with other leaders and, like, we're figuring it out too. And, like, that's normal. And, like, part of, like, our superpower is, like, solving problems, you know, which I think is so inspiring. I think to executives, we you know, it's what you said. We have to write our own story. We have to really get in front of, like, the team and show what we can do and the impact we make. We can't be behind the scenes. You know? I've never had one employee tell me, like, thank you so much for getting my payroll right 99% of the time. They only see sometimes when things are problems or, like, employee relation cases that escalate up. I think it's really important for HR leaders to, like, be front and center in, like, telling our stories and, like, the impact we're making across the org. You know? And we should continue to break through those walls and barriers of, like, how people view the HR function. Because if executives could really see HR as being the heartbeat and connective tissue of the company, we talk to all levels of the org. Like, you could read an engagement survey, but it goes so much deeper than that. And you could understand, like, as you slice and dice that data, where should we focus? How do we have action steps? How do I, like, continue to build a great company culture? How am I making impact as I translate, like, business metrics that matter to my executive into, like, practices that, like, retain and make our employees happy to, like, be with the company and, like, wanna be advocates for, like, who we are? I just think, like, there's so much we have to do to continue to tell our story and be proactive and not wait for, like, the, thanks for saving the day moment behind the scenes or, like, the problems. Right? Because it's all the things that, like, you don't see that we catch that really drive true meaning and impact. I'm trying to be a good listener and also think, like, what would I say to the executive team? Or what would I say The CEO. Yeah. And and kind of pitching. Like, hey. How can you think about this differently? Yeah. Exactly. And I actually like people operations. I but to help people understand, there's a long educational discussion that needs to happen. Like, I think of it as people systems and operations. Like, there there is this layer of, like, your human capital enablement. Like, if you want to have an amazing organization, amazing, efficient, right, productive company, there's so many layers to it. And that takes a long conversation. Who on the executive team for the most part or who else in the company outside of people ops or HR has studied? Like, really, all the different layers of workforce management, workforce development, like, what organizational psychology is, what impacts it, how you how you create a very healthy vibrant culture, how you attract talent, how you develop that talent. I mean, there's there are the road map. Like, the architecture behind people operations is is vast. It is really vast, and that's not just one conversation, really. I mean, it's a long educational process, which is all the more important to be around the table. There's so much time spent on growing, right, and creating a very healthy business. And that's a key word there is the business economics. Right? Like, those need to be connected back to HR. And it's impossible HR leaders are not set up for success if they're not around the table. They need to be in those conversations about the business economics so they can connect the dots. Yeah. I get it. Right? Like, we need to be able an an executive team is thinking about the strategic initiatives, like a strategic plan. What are the drivers for the economic growth, the productivity of the of the organization. But then we have to translate that down to the individual contributor. What are their KPIs? Like, what is the role that they play in moving the lever within their department, their department within the organization, all of that. This is a vast web Yeah. Of dots. I get it. Yeah. It's very complicated. And it's more complex when you're not around the tables. Yes. Then okay. I love that. And I love how you broke it down because I think it's like this hidden because it's like this hidden kind of infrastructure that you are seeing every day in HR. You see all the levels. You have you like you said, you have the fingerprints on everything. X-ray vision. X-ray. That's, like, crazy that some people with that X-ray vision are still not getting a seat at the table. So how do you get that seat at the table? What are the data points you bring in? What are the things you do? How do you get in the boardroom? I think the first thing is recognizing that, like, very simply, people equal performance. Like, if your company is not performing well, it's the people behind the scenes. And I know we're gonna talk about AI, I'm sure, at, like, some point in here too. But, like, when you really break it down, having an engaged work force that's, like, connected to your mission that, you know, you invest in feeling seen and valued and look at growth, look at skill sets, look at KPIs, and you translate all of that up. Like, look at that x-ray vision. It feels so clear cut to HR professionals, but it feels very subjective to executives in a lot of ways. And there's a lot of storytelling. Like, our superpower is the storytelling. It is the personability. It is the high EQ, right, and building these relationships. And, like, when it comes to things like board meetings, you have very limited time. I was researching a little bit. I was curious, like, how many CHROs sit in board meetings? It's about 65%. And even out of that, 20% are there each board meeting. Something like not very good at math. Remember. Something like 30 check me on this, Leif. 39%, 40% are sometimes there. And that's CHROs. Now, like, I'm a VP of people in a small start up. This is my first opportunity to really be sitting with the board and presenting just this year in my twelve, thirteen year career. A lot of times, HR is represented and spoken on behalf of by finance, by COO, and it doesn't mean that we don't have close collaboration and partnership before the scene. But, ma'am, how powerful is that that you can actually be in the room and hear what's happening firsthand be or as opposed to having something translated back to you? And, when I think about those stats, like, again, like, a lot of HR leaders may not even sit on an executive team. Like, they're reporting into the CEO. They're representing that. You know, I I found that in some companies, even the decks I present for I put together for the board were just as cliff notes, like, nice to know FYI. And I'm like, what are we talking about? This is huge. And, you know, when you're in the boardroom too, again, you have limited time. It's not like every day we're having these relationships. We're building the story. We are, like, making impact day to day. Sometimes you have, like, ten minutes. Sometimes it's, like, twenty, thirty minutes. It's not like you have hours to, like, do all of this. So, you know, you have to be intentional in terms of understanding what are those business metrics, you know, that you need to get across to, like, help show the impact and, like, the value that we're making that we believe in. You know? And, like, for the board, it's, you know, we're looking at the revenue numbers. We're looking at employee performance. Like, did we meet our sales? Did we not meet our sales? Like, where are we growing? What gaps do we have in our org today that, like, we don't have this function? This could really help us level up. So for me, as I got promoted to VP of people, it was almost like a new, like, a new level, a new way of learning because it wasn't gonna be the compliance and the payroll and the expertise that I had. All of that really matters, and that's still there. And that's where, like, I build up a team that I, like, trust to, like, take those responsibilities wholeheartedly and, like, lead with confidence. But to me, it was like, okay, Adri. Like, let's, like, go back to school for a minute and, like, let's really listen. Let's, like, hear the pain points. Where are we missing on sales? Where are we excelling in sales? What kind of companies are interested in, like, buying our product? What are we doing in terms of, like, you know, customer, attrition and retention? Like, really going deep, really understanding the pain points of those leaders and then being able to lay this point. Like, look at the org. Look at the KPIs. Look at the talent we have there. So, like, I don't have all the time in the world when I'm speaking to the board, but, hey, I think it's an amazing opportunity. Like, Bonusly is investing in me to have a voice and seat at the table for the first time in the HR, like, realm here. And to be able to just really, again, think through how can I be a strategic partner? What are those pain points? What does the board care about? Are we hitting our numbers? Are we not? But, like, how do I translate that into, like, goals that are really meaningful and keeping a heartbeat on our culture? And, you know, like, recently, I was asked, like, what does our performance landscape look like? Like, we have four rating categories, like organizational impact, high performance, high potential, and then let's discuss. And the board was really curious about, like, are we doing nine box? Like, where do you see, like, the talent in the organ, especially if we're gonna grow, if we're gonna look internationally? Like, tell us about, like, where you're finding success. And I I was, like, a little bit blown away. I was like, woah. That's great. Like, I've never actually been asked that at that level, but, like, this is the stuff that really matters. And it meant a lot that they cared to, like, hear the story behind it, not just look at, here's our global headcount. This is our turnover metrics. You know, these are the open positions. I also found that it was very important to talk about, like, our new promotions. Like, what leaders are stepping up now to, like, enable us to, like, grow to that next level? How are we looking at internal mobility? To some execs, it feels like, oh, this is a nice step. Actually, it's most critical. If you have an engaged workforce that's growing, that feels connected, that, again, has good people that are invested in them, they're most likely to stay. They're most likely to refer others to join your organization, and it it paints that web that Leif was talking about. I know. I'm sure our, like, our colleagues, anybody that's going to be watching this, they they share in so many so many of these thoughts. And and also some people watching this might be interested in, like, well, okay. Oh, that's great, but just give me the blueprint. Like, just tell me. Tell me what I should present. Right? Like, a lot of people are desperate for that. And sure, there's some baseline. There's some fundamental metrics any people ops team should be collecting. However, I would recommend to everybody that the most important thing you can do is build the relationship and start asking. Like, get involved even if you're not invited to have a seat around the table. Show you have to show how you can support each organizational head. Like, each of the executives need to understand the role we play. Because if they don't understand and if we don't understand their metrics and how we can help them move the needle, like, I think our job is to set them up for success, and that's how you become relevant. So asking them, like, what are your KPIs? Like, what matters to you the most? And then if you understand what's important for their organization and how you can help them capture those metrics, relevance, like right? You're setting them up for success. You're training them the same time to understand this is how we have your back. Like, this is we can we have this view across the entire company. We can help you create this framework for retaining better, like, a players. Right? Developing Or, okay, we have this initiative. Great. We need to understand what's going on so we can do an o e n d organizational effectiveness and development. Right? Like, if we don't know what's going on inside their org, we can't come in and do an intervention. We can't help them whether it is training up new talent for an initiative we'll be rolling out in a year or two years, a new product. That's why it's so important to be connecting the dots and having the conversations to demonstrate, like, okay. We've got your back. Like, we can present you with this or we can design this for you, but for not building a relationship and ask the questions, then you'll find out that's what's important to you. Great. We'll have that to you. Just give us a little bit of time. We can build this dashboard together or we can build this report. Let us show you, hey. There's these self-service tools. Right? Like, let me enable you to dig into this. Like, you don't have to come through us. So relationships, communications Mhmm. So important. You know, it's really leaning into how you can help others. Like, what are their pain points? Like, let me listen. I think being a good listener, caring about relationship building is huge. If you don't have trust, you don't you don't have that foundation of trust and the ability to, like, speak the truth, You don't have anything. You know? And I think a lot of times, HR leaders and professionals can feel like, I wasn't invited to that meeting. Or, like, even if you're not feeling, like, bummed about, like, oh, I didn't have an invite. Just feel, like, barriers of, like, I can't take through. I love that you just go for it. Like, just let me just talk to this marketing director, and I will listen in on sales calls. Like, I will, like, actually hear out, like, what's going on here and what went really well. And, like, I'm often really impressed. I really get to see the team in action. I don't just hear from the manager. Like, this person's our top performer. I wanna know for myself, like, where they crushed it. You know? Like, we have limited hours in the day. I'm not saying listen to every sales call, but if you take initiative and you really care, you'd be really surprised what rock star talent you have and how you could, like, then translate the bigger picture, you know, and go deeper. I I feel like what I'm hearing too is, like, to almost, like, start and, like, start building those relationships or planting those seeds or, you know, not being afraid to go to that marketing director. It's, like, one one angle to do it for maybe HR leaders who haven't done it yet before is, like, going with the value first. Like, use that advantage you have of, like, that X-ray vision and bring, like, value, bring the data, bring the system, and, like and I like how you also talk about, like I feel like you have a systems kind of thinking and more like a operational lens to how you manage people operations at your company. So I wanna, like, ask a little bit about what role does the platform that you use shape how you lead. You know, having a unified system, having access to that data, how has that changed the game for you? We were honestly using, like, three different core systems. We had, like, for ATS. We had Zenefits for, our HRIS, and then we had Lattice for performance management. And I'll tell you from an employee experience standpoint, like, you're not gonna engage people if they're, like, all over the place. Like, this is where we're doing performance reviews. This is where you get your you get your payroll and benefits. This is where, like, we're hiring. It's a lot. It's a lot for teams to manage and, like, data is disjointed because, like, you might have great systems that do super power things, but, like, if the data isn't speaking to each other, it doesn't allow us to, like, level up. Like, you spend more time figuring out and parsing through the basics versus, like, now I'm ready to go next level and make that impact. So, like, being able to, like, lean into tech. And again, my first tech start up, what do I know about tech? What's a start up? What is happening right now? I think us being just, like, brave. And, again, I got a d in mathematics in college. Like, I am not a math person, but I think that, like, pushing that aside, it doesn't mean that we can't learn and grow, you know, and that we can't be open to, like, doing a little bit. You don't have to be, like, the math or tech superstar, but, like, if you start somewhere, you know, there's a lot of potential. So, like, leaning into tools and systems that elevate us to tell the story to, like, again, look at the metrics without being like, oh, let me do all these calculations. It's so easy now at your fingertips when you can use a system like Rippling. Right? And you, like, are bringing that data all in one place. It makes it so much easier too when I'm presenting to execs, and I'm like, I need this answer fast. Like, I know it's in my head, but, like, also, I can't be slowed down by, like, systems. Or looking across, like, three great superpower systems, I need to be able to, like, really think strategically and move fast and, like, be able to, like, drive impact in the moment. And, like, from the employee experience standpoint, like, employees get lost. We're often we could become white noise really fast. Like, remember, it's open enrollment season or, like, complete your performance reviews. I don't know how you feel, Leif. I hate that. I hate being, like, I'm just here and reminding you to do this. Like, I've never had one employee once come to me and be like, I am so excited to do my performance review. And I I'm like, I laugh about it each time, and I ask people in, like, webinar through HRCI, and they're like, LOL, no. And I'm like, exactly. But, like, something's not being translated right because if we're really thinking about it, growth and development, that's exciting. Like, that's why I moved into HR. I didn't have a manager that cared about my growth. I couldn't break through the ceiling. But, like, when you're in an environment that, like, cares and you have an HR team that's able to enable that, wow. How powerful is that to, like, sit down and think about the great things that you've done and to think about, like, how can you elevate and how does that translate into, like, the bigger picture of your company? Like, I really like to think about it as though we're each a puzzle piece to, like, making a company and, like, bigger picture great together. So yeah. Yeah. The beauty of having a system where we can connect all those pieces of the puzzle and translate that into data and tell the story, right, of how that puzzle fits together, one, it's fun, and not everybody might think it's fun. Like, system thinking and system design isn't everybody's forte. Like, I'm not. I'm I'm in HR as well because I'm a I'm a people person. I wasn't I didn't do a degree in economics or data analysis. I'm not a data scientist. However, the amazing thing right now, like, we're set up for success by having access to, like, a single system that allows us to pull together great reports, to be able to lead and coach people, to create learning tracks, right, for them to continue developing in their career. But then we can report on that because it's in the same system. We can capture the data. When it's all fractured and fragmented in different places, you're just spinning your wheels. Like, we're not an efficient team, and there's enough day to day fires that that a people ops team deals with, let alone, like, trying to evolve to that next step of strategic thinking, strategic impact. And you have to be able to access your data and to be able to tell the story with the analytics that speak to the business drivers. Right? And so that's what's really impactful about it is being able to access it under one umbrella, like, under one roof and being able to, create new tools that maybe speak to the leadership's strategic initiatives. Right? So having a singular platform that set us up for success is is absolutely critical. Like, it's mission critical. Would any executive team settle for anything less for themselves? Right? Should any department, should any organization if they if they had all the business data scattered around and they couldn't look at a dashboard about, like, hey. What's our like, what was our monthly revenue at? Like, just to think about something super simple. Right? Like, over our sales for the previous month. Like, if they had to go to five different platforms and then try to pull that together, they would never you take some words. Yeah. You would never nobody would ever settle for that. That's inefficient. Those are broken systems and same thing. Like, within our org, you have to have a singular useful tool that brings it all together. We're in an age where I I believe, like, anybody can almost do any job if they think about it the right way. We have a limitless number of PhD level interns that can solve problems with us and for us at our fingertips, if we're learning how to leverage AI tools properly. I don't have to be the data analyst. I don't have to have that level of understanding. I need to have a framework in my mind, but I can go and partner and say, well, how should I? Like, how should I parse this data? How can I present this data? What is the framework? I mean, what are the rubrics we should put together? What are the nine box? I mean, like, if people don't know, go ask. We can all be great problem solvers, bring solutions to the table, and you start learning little by little by doing that and exploring. So you don't have to be the expert, and I think that can be overwhelming. Right? Like, for anybody out there we're talking with today, it's like, oh, man. That's a lot. And it yeah. It is a lot. But you just tackle it all little by little, and you learn Yeah. Across time. And I think that's one of the things, like, take a breath. It's a lot. You can't do it all at once. No company does it all overnight either. It's little by little. Get your structure. Yeah. Build that 1% at a time. Take those little steps and set yourself up for success. Same thing with collecting data. Just start collecting one thing. And then all of a sudden, that report will probably have five things, and maybe it grows into having 10 things and 15, and you mature. I think that's one of those things that if you try that, it's that whole, like, can't eat an elephant in one bite. Like, one bite at a time. Mhmm. A little right? Like Mhmm. Bite sized chunks for sure. And like I said, you don't you know, like, we could eat raise the bar, set the bar for ourselves. You don't have to, you know, have a PhD in data science. You know? But you can set a learning goal for yourself on, like, this is what I want to achieve, and, like, that's where you lean into, like, your team members. Like, I partner very closely with finance teams, and I'm Manisha on our team as a VP of finance. Like, he's a wizard. You know? Like, I'm like, oh my gosh. Like, I am not an Excel wizard. But, also, like, I don't need to be because I can complement those skills, and we could think through it together. And he's like, I am not an HR wizard either, but I learned so much from you. And I think with this added factor of AI, there's so much that's gonna happen, you guys, with, like, the click of a button to be, like, onboard, ship that this out, make sure that that person gets their Slack. It's gonna happen. Think about, like, all we talked about originally. Like, the the midst of HR, like, going back to, like, feeling like, you know, just very administrative roles. And this is all really important work, and it really matters in terms of the employee experience. But, man, if you could automate that, think about how you free up the time and you can elevate the HR profession. Using systems, using data, using AI as, like, a team member through it. And I still believe in the signature style. I still believe that, like, AI isn't gonna replace all jobs. You can't replace great human leaders, and you can't replace, like, having somebody also at the control pane, like, pressing the button and making sure, like, does that make sense? Like, yes, the engagement survey, you know, this is what came out of AI, but, like, you're having the conversations with your team. Does that align? Or what else can you add? You know? Like, AI is a tool that's going to enable us, and it's going to free up a lot of administrative things. But, like, man, what potential we have. It's exciting as we think about it and, like, when you think about it in, like, the right frame of mind, like, that bite sized chunks. Like, don't get overwhelmed, but also realize, like, this is exciting. You have all this potential. And I do I like what you said. I think it was Adriene who mentioned or I don't know if it was Lee. I I can't remember. But someone said, like, you're set up for success when you have all that data consolidated in one system. Yes. And I and I think that's really interesting because it's almost like, you are able to compound the impact without getting scattered. So, like, for those people out there watching this who who may be running HR in those fragmented systems where they're in a software sprawl and they have all these thing tools, like, what would you tell them? Why why why should they consider, like, making a switch? Like Yeah. Make life easier for yourself. You know? Like, there's no reason to go through the pain. You know? I mean, I think that a lot of us, we just kind of accept that you put Band Aids on things. And, like, I work in start up environments. I get it. I'm I work very scrappy, very lean, and I'm like, cool. And that's a superpower in itself. But then there comes a point of, like, okay. Come on. Is this necessary? You know what I mean? Like, there are other ways to do it, and part of it is recognizing like, we say this a lot at Bonusly. It's not just taking things at face value. Like, don't just accept that, like, this is the way it's been done. You know? Like, I think it's important that, like, whether you're new or you've been with the company a while, like, there's some things that are status quo, but, like and I'm not saying, like, fix things if they if they don't need fixing. But, like, be curious and, like, think about, like, what's the potential? How much time could that save me? What is the possibility? If you have a really good system, wow. Like, that makes all the difference in the world in terms of, like, elevating your quality of work and your level of strategic thinking and, like, also, like, being able to, like, move the needle for your team around your goals. Right? So, again, like, if anyone's out there and you're like, I am putting down days on everything and, like, water is leaking through the walls. Like, we are all there at moments and, like, we've been there. But if you have the opportunity to really think about, like, if I could get out of, like, the sinking ship and, like, elevate, you have such incredible potential to, like, build on an even stronger foundation. Yeah. Self inflicted pain. Self inflicted pain. Why do it? Why operate? Make the switch to Rippling. Yeah. Like, why honestly, like, do step back and do a little evaluation. Would you accept less anywhere else in life? Like, I was trying to think of an analogy or something. Like, would you be okay with a car that, like, ran every other day maybe? Like, you that you could trust on it to, like Right. Get you to work maybe every other day. This might be a horrible example. I'm sure sense. Like It's like, what are you like, it's you're kinda setting yourself up for failure and it's like, you just you might as well do it now. Yeah. Because if you wait, you're kind of, like, stalling the the truth. Totally. And that's a actually gonna face the problem. And I do think that's a hard hard one to tackle if you are in a very established organization. Right? If it's a sacred cow. Like, if there's a lot of sunken costs, sunken time into an established system, a let's just call any of them out there a legacy kind of system that are janky and don't work and do not set you up for success because you can't even pull a report without calling the helpline. Like, yeah, I mean, like, honestly, like, you step back and think about, like, how is this setting us up to be an efficient team that provides a great employee experience, a great service to the company, great partnership, strategic partnership to the leadership team. Does this system do that for us? That's what a great system should do. And, luckily, this system does that, and it automates. I mean, it the number of automations we have is equivalent to a half time employee every month. The number of and that translates into impact, like, great UX and UI in a sense. Like, we're able to provide impact to our employees, great communications that are automated during onboarding or something, which free up time to have the human relationships. Right? Like, there's always fires. Like, there's always day to day hires. But when you can automate that and get out of spreadsheets or whatever is scattered outside of a system and bring it into one spot, one, it's reportable. If it's in there, the data's there, and you can report on it. Two, you can automate it and save time. So it means if we can save time, now we can start thinking about more strategic things. There's magic to being able to pull this all together under one one roof. Oh, boy. I laughed when you said, like, fires. You know, how many times our CFO has been like, can you pull me this report or get me this data? And I'm like, I have to pull some of it from this system and then aggregate it with that, and then I need, like, Manisha's help to, like, run me a formula. And she's like, I don't understand why it's so complicated. I'm like, this is the way that it is. But, like, you when you're working with executives, like, they don't see all this and you're on the phone with call center and everything. There is a lot of time that HR spends that's invisible, like, just getting to the source. Right? And your executives see that. Like, they want the data at their fingertips, and it's not always like right now. But, like, there is a sense of, like, you wanna feel confident in the data. You don't wanna spend your time, like, digging through the minute details. Like, you really need the reliability. So, like, having a system that elevates your credibility, elevates your ability to, like, translate that data and storytelling is so impactful. And, like, for HR leaders out there that may be working with systems that feel like, okay. It kinda does the trick. I get that. I think Leif and I have both been there, and I know that change is hard. Like, you're so busy. If you're an HR team of one or two or even if you're a big team, it takes a lot to, like, migrate systems and to think first about making that change and, like, to do it without a hitch so that employees have a positive experience. But I'm telling you that if you can set that goal and you could really think about, your new foundation and, like, what you can build on top of that, the impact you could have on your employee experience, the impact you could have on your own role, your credibility, your strategic, contribution, go for it. Like, plan it over time. It doesn't have to be, like, a Jan first rollout, but, like, you can definitely, like, set the stage and socialize it with your leaders and talk about, like, this is where I can be making more impact on our KPIs if I could free this up or I could have better data at my fingertips. Like, make the strategic discussion and business case for it because this isn't a nice job. I think it's an absolute need to have. Can you read more? Oh, yeah. Love that. So much so many good things in there. Talk a lot about once you've reached that, like, point of we made the switch. We're living on a different system. You free up time. And then you also mentioned, like, now we got all these PhDs at our fingertips with AI, and these models are only gonna get smarter and smarter. So it's like soon enough, so many things can be automated. So as we look into 2026, what do you think are those really crucial, not nice to have, but must have skills of the top leaders? With with AI coming, I mean, I think we have a a lot of training to do across the entire workforce, to understand that it's not a glorified Google search. There's there's that part of, like, l partnering with l and d and bringing, our workforce up to speed because right now it's underutilized. It's not fully comprehended, the power of. And also AI is advancing very, very quickly, but into where we can automate more, and amplify, not replace. I don't think it's replace some companies approaching this as, hey. This is an opportunity to replace people, and I disagree with that approach. This is a way we can amplify performance. If you can three x or five x an individual's performance because they have agents under them. They're why would you replace people you can afford? Why not make your company three x or five x or 10 x as productive? So there's that part. But the leadership question, my answer to that is still maybe a little, generic's not the right word, but traditional where I think a lot of companies fall flat on their face in this area where leadership development. Leadership is going to remain the same. There's new skills, like, that need to be developed around AI and, and leveraging that. But in the workplace, managing and coaching. Right? Leadership skills, communication, the soft skills, the emotional intelligence, how to navigate difficult conversations, crucial conversations, conflict. That is mission critical as well, and I think a lot of most organizations are horrible at that. Like, really, really awful. Our organization, we did a poll, and 80% of our company is conflict avoidant. So when you when you think about that, well, how are we resolving conflict? How are we training people on how to become comfortable with navigating difficult conversations? So And that slows you down in terms of collaboration and efficiency and being able to build great work together. Yeah. So I think I mean, that would be my answer is there's a lot of training. There's hard skills, But the soft skills on are number one for me still. Like, coaching, development, those leadership skills are extremely critical, and I think a lot of companies, a lot of us fall flat on our face with that. We don't invest enough in developing our leaders. Totally. I I fully agree with everything you said. I don't know if we have much more to add to that. I think earlier on, we talked about, like, great human leaders. And, like, these are skills that, again, AI is going to to augment. AI is gonna automate. There's always fear of change. Like, I think about industrial revolution and, like, that was, like, a shaking point, you know, as, like, AOL being online and people, like, on computers for the first time. Like, you know, the world is changing. This is not the first time that we've seen opportunity for, like, you know, things to excel and to look at jobs and skills in new ways. And, like, now you're having AI experts out there. This was not a job five, ten years ago. So I think leaning into that and, again, you can't replace that signature style. You can't replace, like, the great experience that we come with, that we have learned over our careers, that we have learned in school, that we are applying to the workforce. Like, I think that, again, we have to look at this as as augmenting and enhancing and making more efficient. And, again, not being afraid to lean into technology. Like, we have an incredible, like, customer success manager. She writes all of our, like, articles, help articles, etcetera. And, like, just saying, like, oh my gosh. Like, in a small company, you're doing three jobs in one, and it's so much. And so I asked her, like, are you leveraging any AI tools? Like, you think that's, like, oh my god. So much. It is helping me so much. And it was really exciting to see, like, woah. I didn't expect her to be, like, that energized and passionate and to be, like, this is making a huge difference. So we're doing a, like, part of my goals for Bonusly as I think about approaching 26 is thinking about, like, one, everyone's still wrapping their arms around AI. So, like, let's be real and, like, just acknowledging we don't know it all. But the more that we could encourage learning and growth and development and sharing stories and, like, seeing how people are using things and I don't just mean tools. Like, if it's helping you with your growth and development or it's helping you work more efficiently, like, we might hear about it. We wanna think about, like, what tools could we be doing that could set, like, practices or best practices around, like, how to, like, do this next level grade. And, like, you know, we have someone on my team now comes from a finance background, incredibly brilliant, but, like, more behind the scenes. So, like, previously was not presenting at our all hands and, you know, had the opportunity during, like, system change with rippling and open enrollment to, like, get front and center. It's like, I want you to own this work because you are doing so many great things behind the scenes, and you deserve to represent that. And she was really struggling with, like, I don't know why I get so nervous and, like, I'm not the most well spoken and, like, my writing is, like, not where it should be. And I was like, well, look. Let's think about ways to, like, build confidence. And she's like, you know what? I'm using chat GPT now, and it's helping me think through my thoughts, but, like, build more confidence that now when I present, it's still my work and it's still what I wanna say, but it really helps me to frame that in a way that, like, I'm leading with confidence. That is amazing. Like, I spoke to our VP of engineering. He was like, I had no idea that, like, people are using that for professional development. Like you said, investing in coaching, investing in leadership, events investing investing in, you know, conflict resolution, EQ. These are all things that, like, the more tech savvy we become and the more we move on this fast moving train of AI, the more it's gonna be critical to, like, think about the human element. And then the more HR is gonna be critical in driving that story. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. As we conclude our conversation, I wanna ask final thing and just brief message that you would wanna leave to our community and our audience of HR folks, people leaders, and just young people entering the workforce. What's one message you would wanna leave with them? Think big. Think different. Step outside of the box. Like, I mean, really, challenge the norms. Like, that's actually one of our core principles is challenge the status quo. And that's what I would leave with everybody is bring the systems thinking, but don't put yourself in a box. Think creatively. Be the entrepreneur. Flex those entrepreneurial curiosities or your creative instincts and become relevant. Like, have the conversation. Don't wait to be invited. Show the impact you can have by being curious. If you ask the questions. Right? So take the be the proactive person and ask how can I set you up for success? Have the conversations. I love what you shared. I would agree with that. I would say don't be afraid to break down walls. You know? Like, just because there's barriers or you feel like you don't have an invitation to that meeting or that conversation, as HR leaders, as any professional, like, you know, I believe that great leaders, you know, don't often call upon themselves to be chosen for things. And, like, you know, I think that a lot of times we think that, gosh, you know, someone's smarter than me. Someone can do this better than me, but, like, I think that HR people are so versatile and so creative and have such heart and care in what they do that let's not be afraid to break down barriers. Let's not be afraid to break down walls. Let's not be afraid to start somewhere. And even if we're not, like, let's say, tech savvy yet on the train of AI, bite sized chunks like Leif was saying is a great way to start. Yeah. Oh, god. Well, I will be taking that advice. I learned so much from both of you, and wow. Yeah. This was this is an incredible conversation. Thank you so much, both of you. Thank you, Adri. Thank you, Leif, for sharing your journey in HR and your careers and all the all the wisdom and systems thinking that you guys have. And I'm really excited for our community to engage with this. I think they're gonna learn a lot. So with that being said, that concludes our conversation. So thank you so much for watching, and we look forward to seeing you in our next conversation. Bye. Bye. Thank you so much for sharing today's webinar. If you're interested in booking a demo with Rippling and learning more about how you can unify your systems and be a strategic thinker in HR, feel free to book, a demo. We have a pool on the right hot right hand side. And that will allow you to do so, or press the button on the top right corner. And thank you again so much for watching. We hope you enjoyed this conversation with Adrian Leif, and stay tuned for future webinars by Rippling. And if you have any questions, feel free to leave them in the chat. Yes. Megan, I see your message. We will be sending a recording of today's full session and the interview, so stay tuned for that. And no worries if you weren't able to make the whole thing. Thank you all so much, and don't forget, you get your free $100 gift card if you book your demo today with Rippling. So definitely check it out. Thank you.