Name: The Future of HR is Now
Uploaded: 2025-10-21T19:16:07.316Z
Duration: 48 min 31 s
Description: The Future of HR is Now

Transcript for "The Future of HR is Now": Hi. I'm Vanessa from Rippling, and welcome to the Future of HR is Now. I'm super excited to be with our guest today, Heba Yousef. She is the founder and creator of I Hate It Here and also the chief people officer of Workweek. So super excited to have you here. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your journey, and I can't wait to learn more from you. So excited to be here. Amazing. Okay. So let's just dive right in. Let's do that. I wanna start at the beginning of your journey. I know that you studied Middle Eastern studies in college and kind of had an untraditional path to HR. So what brought you into this world of HR? I didn't want to be in HR. Like, my first five years of my career, I was doing something else entirely different. I thought I was gonna be, like, a product manager, and I was gonna build tech. And then I went to a company to work for a former mentor, and one of my first projects with him was building a global learning program for the entire company. And three years went by, and I was leading a global learning team. I was training people, sales training, tech training, and they were like, hey. This job belongs in HR. I was like, HR? I don't wanna be in HR. Like, today for real. Like, HR gets such a bad rep, which now being in HR, I think I get it a lot more. But at the time, I was like, I don't want that for my career, and everyone just kept saying, but you're so good at this. You're so good at people. Like, we think you would do a really good job. And now I've been in HR for, like, over a decade, and I guess I'll never leave. What sparked your desire to start I Hate It Here? What a good question. So I work for Workweek, which is a creator led media company. We have, like, six media properties across b to b, across various verticals and functions like marketing, fintech, hospital execs. And when my the CEO of Workweek met me, one of the first questions he asked me was, have you ever thought about creative content? And I was like, me? The the exact words I say to him, and we, like, tell the story and laugh now is, I said, who the f would care what I think? And he, like, looked at me and he said, I think a lot of people would care what you think. After that, we, like, put together a proposal for me to, like, come on as the CPO and also to create content. And I launched I Hate It Here, like, two months after joining. Wow. And I I know that you told me earlier that it's been your three year anniversary Three year. With building that community Yeah. Which is pretty insane that it's only been three years. I guess, I'm curious, like, from your experience building this community to now over 170,000 HR professionals, that's a that's a lot of people. Yeah. What do you know for sure about what HR people really need right now with the state of the world? The amount of times I send a newsletter and somebody replies, wow, I feel really seen and heard, just makes me feel like HR is one of the most ignored functions in corporate America. We get this awful rep, like HR is not your friend, HR is there for the company. And I always kinda laugh and chuckle when people say that because I'm like, what do you think the other executives are here for? They're not here to be your friend. They have, like, fiduciary requirements to investors, boards, everyone to actually make this company into something. So it's hard when I feel like HR is the one that always gets clowned on the most, like, oh, not your friend. So I feel like that external perception of HR, we internalize it a lot, and we almost feel, like, misunderstood or not heard and work we hear things from various marketing materials that's like, oh, you have to earn your seat at the table. And it's like we're like this the ugly stepchild of corporate America functions. And, you know, launching I Hate It here, it felt like a lot of people felt seen for the first time because I would say things like, oh, I had to advocate for that, or I fought my CEO on that, or the employees are unhappy with me because I had to do x, y, and z thing, but I had to explain to them this is why I had to do it. And so I think, like, that is kinda one of the biggest things I've observed that I hated here, that, like, HR people struggle and feel like they're not seen. They can't be themselves, and no one really understands what we're going through because it is quite hard. Like, I don't I don't necessarily get to be friends with everyone I work with because I have a different role, and I see things so clearly that other people might not see. And it's almost like you have to have your guard up a lot in HR. Yeah. It's like there's the almost a disconnect sometimes between the other functions because HR sits at such a different, like, viewpoint of the company. Yeah. But you still have access to the entire company. You have access to all the people Yeah. Which makes up the company itself. I sometimes say, like, we see people at their worst moments and at their best moments. And I think a lot of people associate HR with, like, hiring and firing, and those are, like, the two inflection points where people think of HR the most. But, really, we're, like, behind the scenes doing a lot of invisible work that employees may never know. They may never know the battle I fought to get them that pay raise. They may never know the promotion I advocated for until I was blue in the face. And that, like, unsung kind of work, that, like, unrecognized work kinda adds up after a while, and you almost feel, like, emotionally drained for, like, all the secret work you're doing. And then you go out into the world and people are like, HR sucks. They're not your friend. They're the worst. And you're and you're like, you don't understand how much work I'm doing behind the scenes that no one sees. Mhmm. It's kinda wild. Yeah. I'm also still learning, like, how much HR actually does too, and it is like, there there's a lot of hidden costs, but behind the scenes like, what what are those actually? Like, can you share an example of some of the things that people don't know that HR carries that burden on? Oh my god. Well, it's it's been the since 2021, I feel like we've read headline after headline of layoffs, and a lot of that work is done behind closed doors quietly, and you're having to help people make decisions about people you might genuinely care about. And you're trying to navigate it in a way that sets the committee up for success and sets the employee up to exit in a way that feels like the most human possible. And I think that labor that emotional labor is, like, really misunderstood at times. Like, I don't relish someone losing their job. My goal is to if that's the circumstance we're in, to try to do in the most humane way possible. But still, we're usually kind of, like, the face they see when that thing happens. And while we can't control every decision the business makes that got us to the outcome of needing to navigate a layoff, we're almost the people who have to execute this, like, big horrendous project. And I think it's really hard. Like, I've had to do them, and the feedback I've gotten is, like, you were, like, kinda cold during that process. And I, like, had to give feedback back that said I had to be cold because these are, like, friends and people I care about that we're talking about. And I didn't have to be cold in the delivery, but in planning it, you almost have to, like, turn off your human emotions at times. And I think we really have to separate the thing we are feeling from the thing we are doing, which oftentimes the thing we are doing is not within our control. And, like, a lot of people like to think HR is, like, this, like, puppet master who's making the decision. Mhmm. But a lot of times, I'm actually carrying out something that is an outcome of something I would have never chosen anyways. I'm really interested in in that because I wanted to ask about you're you're kinda just dealing with with what's being thrown at you like a firefighter. Yeah. The dumpster fire that you Or or, obviously, like, you are the strategic architect as everyone wants to be. And I think it's like a like a narrative that is not new. Like, this is something people know. But but do you really think that HR has a chance to to stop just, like, fixing what's broken and actually pave a path where they feel empowered and they feel in control in what they're doing? Like, what does it take to really get there? Do you want the pessimist answer or the optimist answer? I want the brutally honest answer. A lot of us are inheriting circumstances that are not our choosing. So how often does an HR person walk into a company on day one? Quite rarely. Right? Mhmm. My CEO, when he hired me, I was one of the earliest calls he made. He'd actually made it six months prior to me even accepting a role. And he called me and said I've worked at companies where HR was an afterthought. I actually want HR to be one of the earliest hires I make. Would you wanna join us? Interesting. And I said no for six months. I eventually, I came back to him and we worked on I Am Where I Am. But his idea was that, like, he had worked at companies before where HR was absent, and it really made the environment awful. And a lot of HR people walk into those circumstances and were given, like, like, you know, there's, like, tech data. We're given our tech debt. We're given, like, institutional debt. Got it. And now we have to right the wrongs of choices we had never made, would have never made, and probably advised against. And so my, like, little pessimistic brutally honest view of it is, like, we are given these circumstances and then asked to kind of fix them or make them better. But institutions, just like people, are kind of hard to change, and it takes time. And trust, especially for employees, especially when you think about HR, trust is, like, pretty low. I I often say, like, we as HR almost start in the negative because every single person you know has a bad experience with HR. Just ask your friends. Like, go to your friends and be like, hey. Anyone? What's your experience with HR? I guarantee you all of them will have at least one negative thing to say about HR mistreating them, maybe rightfully so or not. I don't know. I don't know all the circumstances. But, like, we have to then kind of write the relationship of, like, mistrust that employees have for HR all while trying to navigate an org into, like, its next phase, and we inherit all of that. So now, like, when you say we're reactive, a lot of times we're reactive because circumstances have built up over time, and now we are having to address them in real time. Got it. The dumpster fires don't just, like, happen. I feel like they've been brewing for a bit and someone just lit the match and boom. They've been building for a while. So that's like, I want HR to be in a proactive situation, but because a lot of us are cleaning up institutional debt, I think it most often, we're in a reactive situation. It's interesting that your CEO, though, wanted to bring on an HR person Early on. Early on. Because some HR people, I guess, what they inherit is also, like, the culture that's already ingrained in their in the employees. Yeah. And it's like, how do you change that if you're just, like, locked in there? And on top of that, dealing with all the administrative work or dealing with compliance and A global pandemic. A global pandemic. And, like, moving a company remote. AI. Like, the last five years have just been, like, a new thing, a new exciting challenge. Like, do you ever watch Love Island? And they're like, a hot new bombshells enter the villa. I'm like, every day, I'm like, a hot new challenge is, like, coming my way. I can't wait. Yeah. Because, like, AI has, like, radically changed the way a lot of people are thinking and talking about work. And, like, HR is at the center of a lot of change at orgs. And so we are just trying to get the people where they need to be to be able to do their jobs well, and that in itself is, like, a feat every day. Okay. I wanna talk about AI then. In a world driven by AI Uh-huh. What are the workplaces missing? This might be a slightly controversial take. Okay. I have to preface it with I've worked at, four venture backed start ups. I love start ups. I, like, live, breathe, and die for, like, the early stages of chaos, and I love, like, all the things that can come with working at a start up. But with this introduction of AI, I do feel like there's been almost, like, a hyperfocus on efficiency to an almost detrimental sense that the the humanness of work is being lost. The the thing that makes you and I different and beautiful and unique is almost being washed away by everyone needs to be hyper productive now, and we all kind of sound the same and talk the same. And it, like, worries me. Like, I can when I read content, I know if it's something that AI has written or if a human being has written it. And I'm worried the more we introduce AI into the workplace, the more we all become carbon copies of one another. And the thing that made you special, the thing that made me special kind of gets lost in this idea of hyper efficiency and hyper productivity where we're all going to chat GPT and churning out the same stuff and that we forget that we are human beings with, like, critical thought, and we can be analytical about the problems we're solving and that maybe this robot that's, like, trained on everything in the world, isn't trained on the innovative ideas we're gonna have. Maybe it's not gonna come up with the solution to our biggest problems. Maybe we, the humans who are experiencing those problems, are going to be the people who come up with it. So I have, like, a very love hate relationship with AI. When it started being, like, really talked about in the workplace, I made a lot of, like, Skynet Terminator jokes, like, oh, the robots are gonna replace all of us. We're all gonna die. I don't make those now anymore because, you know, it's getting kinda serious where they're saying there could be, like, a climate impact to the servers because we're all overusing AI. They're talking a lot about, like, what this could mean for entry level jobs in the job market, and those things kind of scare me. So I say love hate with AI because I see clearly, I think, the negative ramifications, and I also understand how it can help companies move into the future. Yeah. It's really tricky, and it's interesting because of how fast things are moving and Yeah. You know, how fast technology is getting better as well. So I do feel like HR has an opportunity to play that role in, like, helping preserve that. What are those top skills that really will matter? I talk about two, curiosity and creativity. Like, I mentioned them when we were, like, on our walk earlier. Like, we should remain curious about everything. I grew up reading books, so I always talk about my love for reading and that I have been on a million plus journeys. I have met a million different type of people. I have met wizards and dragons. I read a lot of science fiction. I've met astronauts and people in space. Like, that curiosity for the world that I had as a kid, I feel like has really helped me in the workplace because so often the problem that we are presented with is not actually the problem we're trying to solve. Oftentimes, someone will present a problem to you, and it's really the digging and the unraveling. It's like the hidden problem. The hidden problem. Like, almost the emotional, indescribable human problem. But if we lose that sense of creativity, if we go to chat g p t and ask, I have a I have a direct report who's not taking feedback well, and it spits out a response, but maybe there's, like, so much more to uncover. Maybe that direct report is, like, dealing with some family situations. Maybe they're struggling to find caregiving for their children because that's a very real thing that's happening right now for working moms who have left the workforce again in waves. The last job report showed us moms are leaving again because the cost of caregiving is getting too high. Like, there's so much to unpack. And if we lose that sense of curiosity, that childlike wonder, like, we might never get to the problem of the the root of the problem that we're trying to solve. And so I talk about curiosity in that sense. It's also one of my core values, so I feel like, a bias towards it. And the other one is creativity. And so I create content. Like, some days I wear my chief people officer hat, the other days I wear, like, my content creator hat. But creativity is, like, just a muscle we can build to help us think about problems differently, to help us come up with solutions that we've possibly never come up with. It can change an experience for someone. So, like, those two I talk about quite a bit. And the third is another c word, which is kinda funny that I picked all c words, change management. The world is changing so rapidly. So when I look at, like, HR leaders of the future, how do you actually take your organization and bring them to the next level, to the next wave that we're going through? It's being curious, being creative, but also managing change. Because we wake up every day to, like, a fresh new thing that needs to change. And if we can't guide our institutions from where we are to where we wanna go, you're gonna lose employees along the way. I also I really like that last one too because it's, like, a little bit more almost technical. And I and I know that, like, on our walk, you're mentioning too just how one HR, like, speaks to the Yeah. Fee suite or speaks to the the executives. You have to be strategic with how you position what you really want. Yeah. Because it's like, you know what might be best for the organization, but everyone has their own incentives. And I think a lot of HR leaders, maybe those who are not maybe leading that change management as effectively, like, that's something that they can work on. But it's, like, how do you even get there? Like, how do you build that muscle to know that you're not just leading change in HR. Like, you're leading change across the entire company. Yeah. Like, you have that seal already. It's already there. So so what what would you tell people? It's so funny. I never thought I would say I was passionate about change management, but now I literally am passionate about change management. I wrote a whole newsletter about it because I have seen organizations try to change things and fail miserably. And once you lose that trust from the employees, it's so hard to gain it back. Mhmm. And so when we're talking about change and, like, understanding, you have to know all your stake executive level Yeah. Level. What's their incentive? Profit. K. Shareholder value. So when I go to my CEO, let's say that's not my CEO. Well I mean, I don't know. Or I guess Let's use a fictional I don't know if they put words into people's mouth, but, I mean, I assume, like, you know Let's use a fictional CEO. Let's say they are motivated by profit. Yep. If I were to go position something to them, I wouldn't possibly go to them and say, hey. You know what would be really great for employee engagement if we did this fun thing where we, I don't know, got the company together and did a company retreat? I probably would position a little differently. Like, hey. I've noticed, you know, I know we're in cost cutting modes and we can't, allocate budget to something, but employees have all really expressed that getting together and connecting and doing work together is actually, like, super beneficial to them getting this, like, really tough project across the line. What would you say about us getting people together with the focus of two days being that we achieved this project that has been taking forever to get over the line, and then we can deliver it to our clients in a faster timeline? And it's it's like the little things totally make a difference. Well, I used to joke that, like, I would not say I am good at manipulation. I'd like it to be on record. I would not say I'm good at manipulation. But I think a really good HR person will understand who is across the table from me, what are they incentivized by, and how can I position the thing I'm trying to do to get them their buy in? And to get their buy in, you have to tell them what's in it for them. So the way you position something to your CFO might be different from the way you position it to your COO, might be different from the way you position it to your CEO. Those are different audiences you are trying to essentially secure their buy in. Change management is the same on a broader scale because now you're dealing with, groups of employees. You're dealing with managers, leaders, maybe directors. You're dealing with frontline workers. The way you position all of that should be a little bit similar but different, and you should be thinking about those different types of groups that you're communicating with to get them to buy into the change you're trying to make. When you're, like, speaking to all those different types of people though in HR, like, is the one constant still for you, the people? Like, does it always come back to the people? Yeah. The people and why it matters. Why does it matter? Like, why do people still not understand or maybe prioritize people? Like, how how do you get people to actually truly care about the people? I mean, human beings are, like, messy. There's a lot of different okay. Okay. If you have a CEO who's really business minded, I would get them to care about the people by saying the more engaged, employees are, the more productive they are, the better it is for our bottom line. So, like, treating people well is good business. You just gotta figure out how to position that. I think a lot of current CEOs do realize that. But we're in this, like, really interesting, like, push and pull in the employee market right now or, like, the broader labor market where, in 2020 and 2021, we kinda saw the power was in the employee's hands, and the scales have kinda shifted back to it's in the employer's hands now. And this inevitable push and pull between employee or employer can tell you a lot about the dynamics of what's happening in the market too. And it's really fun to watch. And I say fun, I I it's actually not fun because sometimes employers, when they have the power, will do things like, pay less. They'll scale back benefits potentially. They'll force everyone back to an office taking away flexibility from people who desperately need it, from caregivers, from working moms. But when we saw the employees kind of have power, like, especially peak 2021, people were demanding a lot from their employers. And employers were like, holy cow. We have to rise up and match their demands just to keep our talent, to keep them engaged, to keep them wanting to come to work. Especially with everything changing Yep. In the broader economy and, like, more markets right now. But I stand by the work of, like I am in HR because I think people are, to a certain extent, your your greatest asset. After your IP, your next most important asset is your people, and the person directly responsible for moving those that group of people forward is your head of HR. They ultimately have so much power and potential over the actual day to day of the employee experience if they have a CEO who is also aligned with that. It's ingrained within everyone. It's like everyone is aligned, so it's not just, like, HR trying to pull everyone. It's like we're kinda, like, rowing the boat together. Yes. And that's how you actually move the boat. And get your organization to, like, the next phase. Yeah. Yeah. This is hard work. It is it is hard work. We kinda talked about the origin of your journey and, like, the state of HR right now a bit. Yeah. Let let's let's let's also think about the future. Because I still have hope that things can change. Kind of. Change management. So I want I wanna talk about what your vision is. If you had a magic wand, then you could wave it. Like, what would you want for HR? Such a loaded question. I know. Because I don't well, maybe I would leave the HR. You know? But, like, I did write a newsletter once about CEOs who started in HR. And I think, like, the last ten years, the the CFO commanded a lot of power in the boardroom. Rightfully so, when you think about a business cannot operate without its finances. But we've also seen in the last few years a lot of heads of HR end up becoming CEOs. And I think that is, like, kind of a cool and interesting thing. Like, a lot of the, tension at a company could be between your head of HR and your CEO because a lot of CEOs don't understand the power of HR. So it's been interesting to me to, like, watch some a heads of HR go into the CEO role, and and what I want for HR in the future is that, you know, I joke about that seat at the table, but it, like, should be cemented. Like, your people are your greatest asset, and probably why I would never leave HR is because I'm a loudmouth who has an opinion. And I feel like someone's gotta advocate for the people, like, in the in the room of all executives. Like, I like to be the person who's like, and now how is this gonna impact the people? What expectations are we setting for them? How are we moving them forward? How can we support them? And I think that's kind of missing from a lot of rooms, and that's probably why I'll keep doing this work. Yeah. But, like, the future of HR, I could see a lot of HR going into CEOs. I'd see us, like, really transforming organizations, like how AI the AI strategy. Like, I launched our AI strategy at my company Mhmm. Internally. Externally, I'm I have no business doing that. But internally, I think, like, that is gonna be interesting to watch how, AI is going to evolve organizations. I think it will change jobs. I'm not entirely convinced it will get rid of jobs. I know they have said it will, but if you look at, like, the broader world of AI, like, the AI piece is less exciting to me. Actually, the part that's more exciting to me is the reskilling your employees. Yes. I know that we talked about a lot of it. Because, like, 1,000,000,000 people are gonna need to be reskilled because jobs exist. Jobs will exist in the future that have never existed before. Mhmm. Which, like, fun for HR. I get to write that data. I get to, like, map that career path. Right? But, also, we're gonna have to teach our employees how to do those jobs. That's, like, a whole new level of reskilling. It's like a chess game that I'm, like, very into playing because I'm like, what is this gonna look like? Like, where is this gonna go? How are we gonna create these jobs? What does that mean for our organization? I keep saying that I think a lot of jobs will be AI augmented. So, like, there'll be a a job description and it'll be, like, 70% human style work, 30% augmented with AI. Could be, like, a really interesting structure to think about in the future. There's the Hollywood model where teams like, if you think of how a movie is made, that team comes together, makes the movie, and then goes at separate ways, and maybe they work with each other again someday. Like, could we see more companies organizing around a Hollywood model of bringing a team together quickly to solve something and then separating them apart? Maybe they leave the organization. Maybe they go to different teams internally and they start the next big project. Like, I think work is going to change. Yep. But then I think the thing that won't change, I and I we we we briefly talked about this before, I think, was, like, the importance of connection. Yes. The importance of connection in the workplace too. Yeah. And it's like a hidden skill almost for every job. Yes. Like, if you aren't able to connect to the people you're working with, you won't also find meaning in what you're doing. So finding ways to also cultivate connection and Yeah. Is really important. We're, like, lonelier than we've ever been before, right, as a society. Right? I mean, there was the loneliness pandemic. Yeah. And people are talking like, one of the biggest use cases for AI is, like, therapy. People are talking to Yep. That telling me about that. And kids are having girlfriends and, like, it's it's very serious. Like, I'm not making light jokes about it because, like, people have experienced psychotic breaks. There was, like, a really scary article about hallucinization. People hallucinate. Yeah. And then you're like, you get that word out. So it's like there's a dark side to it too, but, like, we so we need connection to thrive. Mhmm. And we have kind of lost it. You used to go to work, meet your people, have water cooler chat, go to lunch with your besties. Like, Gallup has a survey called the q twelve engagement survey, And one of the questions they ask, even though they ask 13 questions, but one of the questions is I have a best friend at work, and people hate that question. Like, it's like a hotly contested question. People like, why are they asking me about my best friend at work? Well, they have found in, like, manufacturing, when you have a best friend at work, you're more likely to, like, take safety seriously because you don't want your friend to get hurt. And that question has been, like, a staple in the survey, and I think it's so interesting. Like, I don't know what the data says if we, like, are losing our best friendships at work, but we're really lonely. And work is where people go to find community. So, also, if we're looking at the future, if, like, people start talking to AI rather than talking to their colleagues, that connection or lack thereof is only going to get exasperated. So our role in HR then also becomes how do we foster these really unique moments of connection, either one on one between the employees, between the employee and the manager, between the employee who's doing day in and day out work and the CEO who might be really removed from their day to day, but it's just as important for the employee to feel that connection to that executive level. Correct. How do we make all that happen? And that's what creates culture Yeah. Too. Yeah. Yeah. It's and it's, like, when also when companies are going remotely remotely, when companies are going remote Yeah. And you don't have that water cooler chat opportunity as well. You gotta foster in different ways. Yeah. I'm like, I don't know how you do it at your Sydney. Now when you're asking me, like, is the HR just one big dumpster fire? Like, every day we're, like, we're dealing with the loneliness, the connection, the pay, the culture, the development. AI is gonna take my job. The fear, change is happening. Our product is shifting. We have to be profitable. What's our bottom line? What's the all of these things just compound day in and day out, and the the wild part is it's all actually connected too. It's like everything is interconnected in a really interesting and unique way. So, yeah, back to your question about why I would never leave HR, I do feel like some days I'm like a doctor where I'm like, what's the symptom? What's the problem? Right? I'm like a detective chasing down all the ways everything is interconnected at work and, like, how it all comes to be so that you can have a good time at work. That's, like, very selfless. I don't know. I mean, I still make money doing this job. I wouldn't say that, but it's fun. I mean, nature of people are really empathetic. Yeah. Like, I think you have to be really willing to to know why you're doing what you're doing. Like, you're doing it for a greater reason. I just I think I'm deeply stubborn, and I want work to be better. Like, the tagline I always say is, like, life is too short for bad work cultures. You could die on your job, and they would probably replace you within, like, a week. I I heard well, I I literally I literally heard I think it might have been on your podcast. It was like, I don't know. You could you could I would have if if an employee passed away That's why you have to take care of yourself too. You have to take care of yourself. That's something I was I heard someone say that exact line where because someone can replace your job literally in a week, you need to take care of yourself. But then at the same time, it's like But, also, I think we, as a corporation, have a responsibility to also care for the employee. Because it's like I think people also forget that when you when you go to work too, it's like you can't just hide and, like, remove your entire life beyond work. You are bringing who you are in all aspects of your life to work. And I think the best work like, the only way to do great work is to love what you do. That's what Deepgram says. And it's like and I I actually genuinely believe, like, when you when work doesn't feel like work, when it feels like play, when it feels like Fun. Yeah. Fun. That's like when you do your best work. And that shouldn't like, in a in a utopian world, I think it would be incredible to see companies where everyone wakes up and goes to work feeling, like, excited. And then you leave work, and you're you're happy. And you wake up and do the same thing the next day, and you feel connection to what you're doing. It's, like, greater than yourself. And and And and, like, we should have fun. Life is too short. Not so Life life is too short for bad work cultures. Like, I can't stop saying that, but, like, we like, again, we'll add that to, like, the list of the long running things. Like, we're also trying to figure out how to make you have fun at work. We're also trying to figure out how to make you feel connected to your manager and the leader, the company mission, and the vision, and the goals, and the values, all of that, because it's all interconnected, is the things that, like, HR is thinking about. And when it comes to, like, fostering connection in the workplace, I mean, you asked that and I feel like I didn't answer it. So I wanna get to the answer. Like, I think for each organization, it will look different. And that's probably a cop out question, but, like or a cop out answer. But, like, we in our organization, like, we just have fun in Slack. We're posting, like, silly memes. We're, like, posting hot takes. We're arguing over what fast food restaurant has, like, the best burger. But we do that because my CEO and COO, the two cofounders of the company show up as themselves in Slack too and want people to also feel that way. That's so interesting. So connection can look different for everyone. You just have to look at who are your players and how can I help them show up as themselves, and that can foster the fun and the connection in the workplace? Wait. It's almost like you have to, connect to yourself so that you can show up as yourself. Yeah. And then that allows others to connect with the real you. Genesee has fought through the b s faster than, I think, any other generation, and people are craving connection and authenticity. So if you can create an environment where people can show up as themselves, have fun, play at work, you will see the outcome of things feeling and looking different. We had, like, a 56 thread long Slack about pistachios. The hot take was, shelled or unshelled, and it was, like, an hour where the company was just, like, arguing about is it better if they're shelled or is it better if they're unshelled. People really like to work for the pistachios, so they really voted shelled. Everyone else said too hard, too messy. I want but we had that in Slack on, like, a random Friday simply because somebody said, how do you all feel about pistachios? And I don't think, like, that person was not in HR. And I'm not saying to go to Slack and just, like, create chaos every day, but creating these, like, little moments of magic Yeah. Little moments of connection where people can state their opinion and how they feel. Also, the day Taylor Swift got engaged, everyone and their mom had an opinion on her ring and the engagement and what's gonna happen. And if she get like that just happened naturally because our CEO also loves Taylor Swift. Yeah. So, like, it created this moment in Slack where we were just, like, playing and having a good time. It was culturally relevant to what was happening in the world, and we brought that from the world into Slack. And then you saw people, like, spin off and have side conversations. You saw people who probably don't interact at all at work suddenly start having a sidebar about something else, and those moments of connection go so far. But if no if that person didn't ask that question about the pistachios, you wouldn't have to thread. Yeah. We wouldn't But then, also, it's interesting because if you take a step back further, it's like, what gave them almost the the to do that? Because that's almost like a test for culture because it must it kind of reveals that the culture in your company has that safety for the employ like, the employees there, they don't they they they're they're willing to, you know, pose a question like that. But maybe in a different organization, they wouldn't. And maybe that's okay. Like, maybe like you said, there's a different way to cultivate that connection. Yeah. But it's like navigating the different environments has a huge impact. I do think if your executives aren't relatable, it can be a struggle to get your employees to want to engage with them to a certain extent. And I'm like, well, how do you change executives who just don't naturally feel relatable? I mean, do you not remember all those like, the people of CEOs getting roasted for, like, taking their COVID calls from, like, their second home and, like, on the beach, and they're like, everyone has to be in the office, and everyone was just roasting them. Like, I think as you go further in your career, you you can't forget that the human being at work is having an experience that might be different from yours. And so that empathy and the compassion for someone's lived experience and perspective, just showing that can go so far. And so, like, executives who are so far removed from that, I think struggling to relate with your employees is, like, a challenge you'll have to face. You'll have to think about, like, how do I get in and actually talk to these people? Our CEO used to do cold brews. Called them cold brews without him. He would get, like, six people together on a virtual Zoom and just do, like, a fun coffee date. And he did it with everyone in the company over a quarter. We should probably restart them again. He'll remind me in, like, the next week to do it. But he was like, every single person should have some sort of access to me and get to know me. And so he cleared his calendar and did that. And that's just, like, one small thing. He also, like our our founders meet with every single new hire the first month they join the company and, like, a lunch where we get all of our new hires together. These little things sound so tiny, but when you expose people to the to the executives, to their stories, to the things that they like, they become instantly relatable. And, again, like, authenticity to me is king. People will feel more comfortable to show up as themselves if they see others doing it. Wow. I, yeah, I wanna I wanna try or, like, I wanna experience one of those events at your place. We have about this now. People watching too. They can take a lot of ideas and, things that they might be able to test in their own environments. We have, like, lost vision. The childhood wonder of, like, existing in a, like, a really fun and unique world. And if you can find ways to bring that back to the day to day work, that play, I I think it goes so far with people. Mhmm. And it'll it'll also impact the business in the long term. Yeah. Because people will show up happier, more engaged. Like, if we're always bringing it back to the business on the profits, like, the more happy or satisfied people are, the more engaged, the more productive they're gonna be, the more unique and innovative ideas they're gonna bring to the table, the less conflict you're gonna have to resolve as the HR person. Like, we should all just have fun at work, especially if you're a knowledge worker. You're just sending emails. Yeah. We can have fun. So to people watching today and to the HR audience and beyond, like, what is one piece of advice that you would leave them? I would say don't forget your why. Why are you doing this job? Why are you showing up every day? Why do you care about these things? Because you have to also feel connected to the work you are doing, and people will feel your connection to the work if you understand your why. And I think, like, my why is I have been mistreated at work. I have seen other people mistreated at work, so I show up every day to build a better experience for every single person at work. Like, that is probably, like, the legacy I hope to leave on this earth. Is that, like, I've done something to help people have a better experience at work and help them understand that they are just a line on a spreadsheet or a number in the profits. They're a human being who gets to experience this world. So, like, always remember your why. I love that. I gotta think about my why. Why are you there? Just gotta think about it. Yep. Every every now and then, I, like, jot to myself, like, why, question mark, and then I, like, go take a walk and think about it. It's so important to be anchored to it because that's it basically influences the way you do everything. I think I would have quit this work so long ago because it is not easy if I didn't understand my why. I mean, the only reason people are able to endure really, really hard moments is when you remember why you, like, why you started. Yeah. Yeah. That concludes our conversation. Thank you so much for doing this, and thank you to everyone for watching today. Yeah. This was amazing. I learned so much from you, and I really appreciate you taking the time to do this. Thank you for having me. Thank you again, and we will see you next time. Bye.